tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19631515.post2356355911661184212..comments2023-10-04T07:48:54.384-04:00Comments on oenoLogic: To the Nth powerthor iversonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16189098900228936573noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19631515.post-64662528351027369482010-04-28T07:25:15.913-04:002010-04-28T07:25:15.913-04:00Well, you're allowed to find the vineyard side...Well, you're allowed to find the vineyard side "uninteresting" if you've internalized and taken as a given the necessary work before that, which it appears you have. As you say, if you're natural (or Natural) it's about getting the grapes you want to the cellar door, because if they're not in that state the urge -- and maybe even the need -- to meddle is overwhelming.thor iversonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16189098900228936573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19631515.post-4535086317959146922010-04-27T23:46:45.535-04:002010-04-27T23:46:45.535-04:00I just read part 1, which I somehow missed (shame ...I just read part 1, which I somehow missed (shame on me) and I have to say these two posts are really thoughtfully laid out and are a great contribution to the "debate", if there is one anymore.<br /><br />I, for one, am finding the vineyard side of the equation somehow less interesting. There are people who can grow great grapes, organic or not, but turn them into shit in the cellar.<br /><br />The ideal, the goal, is to grow great grapes which allow zero intervention in the winemaking. Not so easy to do, but entirely possible. <br /><br />Thanks again for these posts!Hankhttp://www.laclarinefarm.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19631515.post-49358367808729417802010-04-27T22:54:38.285-04:002010-04-27T22:54:38.285-04:00It's what I said in the previous post: "I...It's what I said in the previous post: "It’s a philosophical approach to the craft of winemaking in which the myriad opportunities for control tend to be ignored rather than taken, and in which most choices remain unmade." I think that's right, but more importantly I think it's better than any of the rigid definitions. Yes, OK, I take Alice's point about "it must start with no chemicals in the vineyard," but as with biodynamics I think there's a lot of potential to go grossly astray once the grapes are off the vine, and with no consequence for destroying the ethos of the category.<br /><br />"Discipline" is exactly right, and thank you for contributing the word; as a King Crimson fan, I should have been quicker to the concept. Yes, the <i>discipline</i> to be undisciplined; or, as another proggish band opined, "if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." What makes one natural isn't this or that, it's the <i>lack</i> of this or that as the operating principle. Not a checklist, and "that" or "this" might happen in a given vintage, but the desire to not choose either.<br /><br />And yes, yes, yes to vintage differences. One of my other problems with the "Natural" crowd is the diminishing of the hand. It takes a scientifically-knowledgeable, deft, improvisational hand to deal with nature in all its forms. Exactly the opposite of the caricature of the indifferent Natural winemaker. Even those who regularly produce flawed wines -- let's posit for the sake of argument that Cornelissen is one such grower, even though it's way more complicated than that -- know what they're doing, and why, and what happens as a result.thor iversonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16189098900228936573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19631515.post-36505934745710360742010-04-27T19:48:59.570-04:002010-04-27T19:48:59.570-04:00Yes! Great post. This brings up a few thoughts.....Yes! Great post. This brings up a few thoughts...<br /><br />I'm coming to see we have the definition of "natural" wrong anyway, getting caught up in the baggage of organic and bio and sustainable and all those other labels which serve marketing more than have any concrete meaning. <br /><br />Maybe 'natural" should refer to allowing the vines and grapes to follow the course of the vintage, and the courage to allow the wines to become what they are, rather than push them towards a pre-determined goal. Too often, the temptation is there to "improve" the wine (maybe just a little?) in the cellar; after all, a little new oak will really help in those blind tastings. With technology and some fundamental chemistry, you can turn some pretty bad grapes into something that is drinkable at a basic level.<br /><br />But if one strives for "naturalness" in wines, then we have to allow vintage differences, we can't use make-up, we can't alter what the vineyard has given us. It becomes a discipline in which the skills of the vigneron become important.Hankhttp://www.laclarinefarm.comnoreply@blogger.com